Nagorno Karagh Conflict
“We Turks, we know how to deal with those Armenians, don’t we” he said, slapping me on the back and giving me a cut throat leer. This is from the brilliant ‘Sons of the Conquerors’ by Hugh Pope, a Wall Street Journal correspondent who runs the Istanbul news bureau.
This bitterness stems from the Nagorno Karabagh conflict in the West. To get a complete summary of the war with Armenia would take a book. But essentially after the collapse of Russia, Armenia demanded the area of Azerbaijan currently occupied by many ethnic Amenians and Kurds. Azeri troops were ill prepared for the Armenians and lost the actual war and the PR war as well. The Azeris despise Armenians although the recent re-election of Ilham Alyiev has brought renewed hope of resolution. There are almost no Armenians still residing in Baku.
Here is a picture of the Armenian church. According to Azerbaijan by Mark Elliot, "..it is used to store billiard tables as the entire Aremnian community has departed." The front entrance is bricked off as are several windows. The back seems to have a working door but was inaccessible. The back of the church is surrounded by a large locked fence.
Edit: This was previously labeled as an Armenian Church that was acting as a warehouse. That is not the case. It is the Opera & Ballet Theatre. Sorry for any confusion.
22 Comments:
The gray on the pillars and elsewhere, do you know what material it is? The architecture reminds me a bit of a London bridge. I am waiting to see a picture of some Azeris or at least a description. Making any friends?
"There are almost no Armenians still residing in Baku."
Are there any Armenians left? I thought they all left?
I didn't see what the material was but its close enough that I'll back over there and post closer pics.
The Azerbaijani users at http://www.day.az/forum/index.php?showtopic=23093 are saying that this is the Opera House (Theatre Opera). Is it another Azerbaijani trick or what?
Steve, I think only an idiot can say that the Opera House is an Armenian church. Whatta hell is this? Why do you spread these dull gossips? Did anybody pay you any dough? Where do you reside in Baku? Can you send your address and telephone number in Baku to goldensnake@fastmail.fm
I would like to meet with you and talk.
Anonymous, your threats to Steve are nonsense. The guy can be mistaken but why are you calling him an idiot and then asking for a meeting? Are you going to cut his throat off or what?
Steve, could you please provide information why you thought/think this building is the Armenian church. And if you have put this one up on mistake, do you have the real picture of the Armenian church in Baku?
I have heard that the church is being used there as a biliard center (pool playing station).
Regards,
Blogian
The picture is not Armenian Church, that is Opera Theater. Does this building looks like church anyway?
This is the Opera House indeed. Formerly known as Mailov theater. Its original Armenian owner fled abroad after Bolsheviks conquered Azerbaijan. He later settled in France. Prior to the events of 1918 majority of the old Euro-style buildings in the city center was owned by Armenian oilmen and industrialists. Mantashev, Mailov, Ter-Gukasov, Lalayan, Budagov, Mirzabekov - no name a few. At the time Azeris tended to prefer living in the so-called Old City a.k.a. Icheri Shahar. Being mostly uneducated with lilttle if any marketable work skills, they engaged in petty trade and sold water for a living.
Then, perhaps Steve meant that this is one of the many buildings of Baku built by the Armenians, who since 1988 left because of pogroms and the conflict.
http://www.day.az/forum/uploads/post-10-1083313411.jpg
Here is a picture of the Armenian churhc of Baku. Did you see this Steve? Do you have more pics of this?
Regards,
Blogian
Anonimus
You forget about Tagiyev, Nagiyev, Assadullayev, Mukhtarov, Gadjinskiy oilmen and industrialists and what they build in Baku. Also do not forget that foreughn capital already played great role in oil industry at that time (Nobel brothers and Rotshilds)
Steve - you`re a really stupid man, if you think that it is an Armenian church :) It is a older Opera House - please be a more clever next time when you publish something - ok?
Hello. Thank you all for responding I haven't been closely following the comments or I would have responded sooner.
The posters are correct, that pic is most definately NOT an Armenian Church, it is the Opera House. I concede. Either my map reading or photolabeling skills need some work!
No rowback on this, let me edit the comments and post the real pic as soon as I take it.
If anyone is interested in the reference, the Lonely Planet guide, 'Georgia, Armenia & Azerbaijan' says this, "...an Armenian Church, currently used as a warehouse due to lack of Armenians in Baku these days. It's an impressive reminder of how two nationalities who lived side by side for centuries have divided since the war in Karabakh."
To the curious poster I'm living on Mamedaliyeva St. phone 498-4185.
Steve, thanks for the correction and note in the "Lonely planet guide."
"Azeri troops were ill prepared for the Armenians and lost the actual war and the PR war as well. "
I have to disagree that the Armenians won the the PR war as well. If they did, the Nagorno Karabakh Republic would be recognized, and the world would have condemnded the pogroms and massacres against the Armenians in 1988 and 1990, and the ongoing destruction of the Armenian cultural heritage (hence, the recent destruction of the Armenian headstones in Old Julfa).
Blogian,
Picture of the church has been posted. Obviously a one sentence blog post is not sufficient to capture the nuance that would be needed for such a contentious topic. Unfortunately there is no shortage of tragedy on either side. From an American perpective that Armenia won the PR war, I believe is accurate (or maybe 'winning' would be a better term).
The Armenian lobby was large better organized, the Azeri one nearly non-existent. Clinton supported Russian arming of Armenia. Congress also passed Section 907 (a limited waiver has since been granted) which specifically prohibited Azerbiajan from receiving any economic aid. Hopefully the conflict can move closer to resolution or to a point where cultural destruction will cease.
Blogian and Artyoms blog are both excellent for readers who would like more information.
-NBAT
NBAT, where is the pic posted at? Could you provide a link to the Armenian church?
NastyBrutishAndTall,
Thank you for posting the photo of the Armenian church (I wish you had the dome seen in the picture). I understand you were not able to get in, were you? Did you see biliard tables in it and took photos?
The fact that Armenia did not win the "PR war" shows your post itself. In your post you wrote, "Armenia demanded the area of Azerbaijan." This is not only subjective, but it is also untrue. The people of Nagorno Karabakh held a referendum and they voted to be independent, something that according to the Soviet law every Autonomous republic had the legal right to do. Armenia did not demand land.
Coming to the "Armenian lobby," after getting to know these Armenian organizations and working with them, I have come to the conclusion that the stories about "Armenian lobby" are funny. And the myth comes from this "lobby" itself, who think of themselves as a powerful tool. If the "Armenian lobby" was, indeed, "powerful," US would have recognized the Republic of Nagorno Karabakh, the administration would have dared to pronounce the word "genocide" when speaking of the Armenian holocaust of 1915, the US government would have established Armenian genocide insitute, etc. Just to give you one example of the invalidicy of the "Armenian lobby." There are officially over 170 members on the Armenian caucus in the U.S. House of Representatives (this is an ENORMOUS number). However, most of these congressmen never mention in their websites that there are in the Armenian caucus. Moreover, take the example of the recent bill, which bans US sponsorship to the Azerbaijani plan that suggests to build a new rail way in the region transpassing Armenia (while there is already a railwhile which includes Armenia). Only 70 members of the House have signed on to this bill, and this bill will hardly ever get to the Floor. So where are the rest 100 "pro-Armenians"? This is BS, there is no strong Armenian lobby in the US whatsoever. Azerbaijan gets as much benefits from US as Armenia and many US publications, let alone the Brittish, are anti-Armenian.
Coming to your comments about the conflict again. If you want to see the whole picture about the conflict, you have to go to Armenia and to Karabakh as well. Visit Armenia, it is beautiful.
Regards,
Blogian
Karabakh wasn't recognized not due to the failure of Armenian diplomacy. Rather, the so-called international community didn't want to set a precedent. For if today Armenians can secede from Azerbaijan - whose control they wound up under thanks to bolsheviks - who can stop the millions of Azeris from seceding from Iran tomororow ?
Besides, even Israel - which practically owns the legislative arm of the US goverment - has never been able to legalize the territorial gains it had made in 1967 war. Matter of fact, they can't even get any US president to move the US embassy to Jerusalem.
One now has to keep an eye on developments in Kosovo. If the Albanians get a nod to split the province off, then Karabakh is gonna be next.
NastyBrutishAndTall,
Actually at my blog, I agreed with you that Armenians might be winning the PR war. If you read "The Last Shot" entry, you will understand why.
I have to say Steve I was not sure what you had here ? There are many lies provided by the Turks/azreis Turks. The sad truth is if it were not for the il gained Armenian Blood to the low life forms of the Turks then they would still be in tents out on the desert where they belong.
seeker of truth.
Best regards from NY!
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